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#1 03-19-2007 8:19:13 AM

bobber
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Why does HDMI signal go 'dead'?

I conneceted my new Olevia LCD TV to my Motorola DVR STB via HDMI - everything is great until i turn off my TV - when I turn it back on there is no picture - only 'snow' - to get the picture back I must power cycle my STB or un-plug and re-plug in my HDMI - can this be normal?  I've been through 2 TVs, 3 HDMI cables (each one costing more than the last), and 2 STBs - still the same problem.  The TV manufcturer says its normal - I can't believe that.  Even tried switching to component connection (even more money for cables!) but the picture and color were horrible - maybe I did something wrong?  I don't have much hair left and I'm pulling out what little is there - please help.  I love the picture I'm getting with the HDMI connection but I can't always power-cycle my STB to get the picture back (like when it's recording!).  If you need more details please ask.  Thanks for the help - I'm at a loss!

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#2 03-19-2007 2:05:23 PM

bobber
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Re: Why does HDMI signal go 'dead'?

More info - I just got off the phone with the TV Manufacturer and they said that when I turn off my TV it looses the HDCP encryption and therefore won't display a picture until it gets the encryption back from the STB - so a power cycle is required to do that - I guess!?  Does that sound right - am I the only one on the planet that didn't realize that's how it all worked?  I guess I could live with it and just get a learning remote to handle my power-up duties (power up - STB first then TV and reversed for power down) but, again, that won't work when I'm in the middle of a recording on my STB.  How are other's handling this - I can't be the only one - can I 'turn-off' the HDCP on my STB?

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#3 03-19-2007 2:31:19 PM

Frank
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Re: Why does HDMI signal go 'dead'?

Which Series of the Motorola DVR are you using? Is it HDMI or DVI->HDMI?

Are you turning the STB on and off or just the TV?  I don't think this is the way it's intended to work.

I do not use HDMI so I'm kind of at a loss as to how to trouble shoot this.

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#4 03-19-2007 5:57:36 PM

Wareagle
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Re: Why does HDMI signal go 'dead'?

I don't use HDMI either, but you may want to see if your symptoms fit any of those described here.

If your component connection is horrible then you probably did do something wrong, since most people don't see much difference.

You can't turn off HDCP, since it's one of those copy protection systems.

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#5 03-20-2007 6:28:32 AM

bobber
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Re: Why does HDMI signal go 'dead'?

I'll have to look at the box series - sorry, I don't remember it off the top of my head and I'm at work when I post.  The boxes I have both have HDMI output so I am using HDMI to HDMI and I'm putting this together little by little as I talk to other and look on the Internet.  From what I gather I am having 'handshake' issues but maybe not - does the handshake originate with the STB only or can it originate on either end (STB or TV) - if not then why not - sheesh - we can fly into space but we can't engineer user friendly digital media protection?  Should I call Comcast for help or will that just lead to me banging my head against the wall?  Can anyone tell me a little more about the 'handshake'?  Last night my DVR was busy recording and I turned on my TV - alas, snow and only snow - so I had to reach behind the STB and unplug the HDMI cable - then re-plug it back in to get picture - what a pain - other people can't be doing this regularly.  Does it solve the issue if I add a home theater amp inbetween the STB and the TV?  Then maybe I could power-cycle the amp to get the picture without needing to power cycle the STB.  Help...anybody...?

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#6 03-20-2007 8:14:52 AM

Wareagle
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Re: Why does HDMI signal go 'dead'?

Perhaps you should just try to get the component connection to work, until you can resolve the HDMI problem.  You may have no more of a problem there than mixing up the 3 connectors, since nobody has reported any troubles with components.

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#7 03-20-2007 8:24:01 AM

Frank
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Re: Why does HDMI signal go 'dead'?

From what I've read, HDMI and Component are pretty much visually identical to all but the most fussy eye.

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#8 03-20-2007 9:00:07 AM

bobber
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Re: Why does HDMI signal go 'dead'?

Then I must have done something wrong with my component connection - I spent a weekend working with it and just couldn't get it to look any good - the SD signal was really bad but mostly it was the colors - they were awful - I triple checked my connections to insure that I hadn't reversed any wires - I guess it could have been a bad cable - are there special settings on my STB to use component and do I have to use the $200 Monsters or can I get something a bit more reasonable (does monoprice have component cables?).  Thanks for the help - I am exasperated by this.

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#9 03-20-2007 2:01:43 PM

Wareagle
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Re: Why does HDMI signal go 'dead'?

I've been using the component cables Comcast provided for 3 years, so you might even be able to get some from them.  I doubt they're the highest quality, but they work fine.  I don't know of any settings other than the ones here:
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_use … bPr_Output

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#10 03-20-2007 2:31:16 PM

Frank
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Re: Why does HDMI signal go 'dead'?

Ditto here: Been using the Comcast-provided cables with good results since I got the box.

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#11 03-20-2007 4:12:35 PM

jganyard
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Re: Why does HDMI signal go 'dead'?

A co-worker of mine has a similar issue between his 3412 and his Sony LCD whenever changing between SD and HD channels.  He would have to power cycle his TV to re-establish the connection.  Apparently Sony identified the incompatability between certain versions of their control boards and the Moto/Comcast boxes.  All companies point the finger at the other.  He just uses component with no problems.

On the other hand I have used both the 6412 (with DVI-HDMI adaptor) and 3416 (HDMI native) on both my LCDs (one is LG, the other Samsung) and have zero HDMI issues.

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#12 03-20-2007 5:51:02 PM

bobber
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Re: Why does HDMI signal go 'dead'?

Alright - well thanks for all the help - I hate it when the machines 'win' - I'll re-try the component connection and keep my HDMI cable from Monoprice for my yet-to-be-purchased DVD player.  I really appreciate all the suggestions and help - thanks again.

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#13 03-20-2007 8:38:38 PM

Wareagle
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Re: Why does HDMI signal go 'dead'?

Post back with the component results, with symptoms if you can't get it to work.

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#14 03-24-2007 6:34:29 AM

alesch1
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Re: Why does HDMI signal go 'dead'?

Bobber,
Have you tried changing inputs on the TV when you get no pic? My TV didn't have a picture one time when I turned it on and I switched to another input and then back to HDMI and the picture came back.

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#15 03-24-2007 11:24:11 AM

CommTech
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Re: Why does HDMI signal go 'dead'?

Below is some info i posted in "Dear Comcast" forum regarding your issue.  Since the update, the problems with a few TVs have been corrected, but there are still some issues out there. If you are still having the same problems, I would definitely switch to 5-wire (component) as I did.  Something I have been meaning to try as well once I get the correct cable is using the IEEE (firewire) ports from DVR to TV. I haven't toyed with that yet as far as comparison of quality.  I hope this helps.

CommTech wrote:

As for other bugs, I don't have definite answers other than they are "mostly" Motorola-related. There was a firmware upgrade to ALL Moto boxes about 4-5 months ago that absolutely screwed us up in our processing center.  You may have noticed your main menu change, as well as guide setups change.  The firmware "update" also caused major issues specifically with the DVI/HDMI ports on all DCT5100/6200/6412P1/P2/P3 in the fact that the brand of your HDTV is now a factor in the functionality of these ports. To give an example: i have a Samsung DLP HDTV and was using the HDMI on a 6412P3. After the firmware "update", anytime I turned my TV on I would have a blank or green screen showing until I power-cycled my box.  I began to ask around and other people who had brands such as JVC and Sony had no problems at all.  The 5100 and 6200 HD boxes seemed to be affected the most with their DVI ports.  This problem may be more of a Samsung issue as i have heard since then that they tend to be last in line when it comes to engineering communication on firmware updates on any equipment hooked up to their TVs, but I have heard other brands of TVs have similar issues.


Comcast Cable Communications Technician - Fresno, CA system

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#16 03-24-2007 12:27:02 PM

Wareagle
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Re: Why does HDMI signal go 'dead'?

CommTech wrote:

...
Something I have been meaning to try as well once I get the correct cable is using the IEEE (firewire) ports from DVR to TV.
...

That's probably not such a good idea, regardless of picture quality, since the copy protection schemes will likely prevent you from viewing things like premium channels, OnDemand, and PPV, plus listening to music channels.  It could also play havoc with the remote transport functions, depending on your software/firmware.  neutral

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#17 03-24-2007 3:05:20 PM

Frank
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From: Bucks, PA
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Re: Why does HDMI signal go 'dead'?

Menus / Guide are not displayed via Firewire either.

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#18 03-24-2007 3:27:23 PM

CommTech
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Re: Why does HDMI signal go 'dead'?

Frank wrote:

Menus / Guide are not displayed via Firewire either.

Interesting, I was not aware of this. Firewire sounds more like our CableCARDs "with strings attached". CC's do not allow for menu, guide, PPV, MC, and OnD because they can't communicate with our system (about the only feature they can handle is HD and Premiums), but we have new CARDs coming in the near future that will be 2-way (they can communicate with our system) to basically make it like having a DCT.  More than likely I will still toy around with IEEE just to see its limits, but I'm still going to default with component.


Comcast Cable Communications Technician - Fresno, CA system

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#19 03-25-2007 11:01:14 AM

andyross
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Re: Why does HDMI signal go 'dead'?

Frank wrote:

Menus / Guide are not displayed via Firewire either.

The Firewire apparently gets it's output before the graphics are added. It's sort of like the RF/composite/S-Video outputs when component/DVI/HDMI is outputting 480p+.


Sony KV-30XBR910, Sony STR-DB930, Sony DVP-NS55P, JVC HR-S3800U, Motorola DCT-6412, Sony KV-13FS100, OneForAll URC-8910.
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#20 04-10-2007 6:38:49 PM

Breddy
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Registered: 02-26-2005
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Re: Why does HDMI signal go 'dead'?

I just swapped my flaky 6412P3 for a new 6416.  One of the flaky things about the old box was that the HDMI quit working entirely (it also refused to record any scheduled recordings, but I digress), but I think I recall that I had to, at times, cycle the inputs to get HDMI to sync up properly.  Not with this new box.  If I leave the STB on and power off the TV, the HDMI is completely useless, just like described earlier in this thread.  It's got to be the firmware difference.  I may do some digging around on this, but knowing it's not purely hardware gives me *some* hope. 

With that said, I was using Component on the old box before returning it and there is a difference in PQ between that and HDMI, but it isn't much.  Definitely livable, if slighly irritating "just because".  The user who thought Component was just awful, the box is probably set to output 480 via the component rather than true HD.  A quick visit to the service menu will fix this.  See the FAQ.

Never a dull moment, is there smile

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#21 04-10-2007 6:45:51 PM

Frank
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Re: Why does HDMI signal go 'dead'?

I'm really curious about this because I've been considering hooking up the HDMI->DVI contraption on my 6412, but I've been "talked" out of it by reading there's really no difference in PQ.

If HDMI rates 100, what does Component rate?

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#22 04-11-2007 9:16:09 PM

Breddy
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Re: Why does HDMI signal go 'dead'?

Well, since this problem is causing me to have to use component I will be able to give you side-by-side results.  But, since I'm frickin lazy and I haven't hooked up the component yet, I can't say for sure.  But it's 90+, maybe 95.  If you have to go purchase cables and pull the whole rig out from the wall, don't bother.  But if it's easy and your TV doesn't have the sync problem, it's a little free PQ.

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#23 05-11-2007 11:21:35 AM

Bradb21
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From: Geneva, Illinois
Registered: 08-26-2005
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Re: Why does HDMI signal go 'dead'?

I have a similar problem on one of my sets where HDMI is flakey and I use component instead. I can't tell the difference between the pictures and from what I read the eye can't really tell the difference. I hate to ask this dumb question, but are you sure you're using component and not composite?

I use HDMI on my Phillips Plasma and it works perfectly with the 3412, but I regularly update the firmware from Philips on my Plasma. I have a Philips tube HD tv in my bedroom and this is the one that is flakey with the HDMI and I've had to revert to component cables.


Comcast - Geneva, IL
2 x 3412's with 16.20 firmware
50" Philips HD Plasma with Ambilight 2 (HDMI connected)
32" Philips HD Wide Tube (HDMI connected)

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