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#1 01-09-2007 1:39:57 PM

jganyard
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Registered: 09-09-2005
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Will it really be offered?

So... will it be really offered on a widespread basis or is this likely to be "vaporware"?

I give it 50/50 odds.


oh yeah... FIRST POST!

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#2 01-09-2007 2:04:21 PM

Frank
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Re: Will it really be offered?

They say it will.  Personally, if INTEGRATING two products takes 2 years (this is not development of a new idea, this is simply putting an old idea on an old platform) I'm skeptical about how workable it'll be in the real world.

Did they even spend two years developing the actual TiVo?

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#3 01-09-2007 3:43:39 PM

Wareagle
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From: Bellevue, WA
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Re: Will it really be offered?

I believe the TiVo S3 and the Comcast Motorola DVRs even use the same Broadcom chipset.

How tough can it be?

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#4 01-10-2007 10:07:45 AM

jganyard
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Re: Will it really be offered?

Probably got held up a lot in the licensing and negotiation process i.e. who pays who and what between Tivo, Motorola and Comcast.  Plus I'm sure that Motorola was probably dragged into it by Comcast and wasn't too enthused with having to help support the development of a third OS (iGuide and MS being the other two) for their box.

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#5 01-10-2007 10:09:08 AM

jganyard
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Re: Will it really be offered?

Oh, and I hope they price it right.  I'm not sure what my threshold is.. maybe $3-4 per month?

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#6 01-10-2007 10:15:50 AM

Frank
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Re: Will it really be offered?

jganyard wrote:

Probably got held up a lot in the licensing and negotiation process i.e. who pays who and what between Tivo, Motorola and Comcast.  Plus I'm sure that Motorola was probably dragged into it by Comcast and wasn't too enthused with having to help support the development of a third OS (iGuide and MS being the other two) for their box.

I'm not sure about that first point.  You'd think that, when they announced two years ago that they had a deal in place, they - you know - had a deal in place.  Then again, you never know with this crew.

jganyard wrote:

Oh, and I hope they price it right.  I'm not sure what my threshold is.. maybe $3-4 per month?

Unless TiVo is run by total idiots (which is a distinct possibility), that price point is a pipe dream.  Why would they offer their service for a price that low on a leased HD box when it would effectively kill sales of their $700-$800 Series 3 TiVo?  (They'd also be strengthening my assertion that they bilked early adopters of the Series 3). Unless they're planning to give their Series 3 away for free with a $3-$4 monthly fee in the future, it simply wouldn't make business sense.  How would their flagship product remain competitive in that environment.

I'd look for an additional $13.95 a month to use the TiVo service on the Comcast DVR.  Definately above $9.95.

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#7 01-10-2007 10:20:33 AM

jganyard
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Re: Will it really be offered?

They probably had an agreement as far as working together but didn't have the financial and logistical issues hammered out yet.  Tivo probably was hoping for a boost at the time and pushed for an early announcement since this was about the time they were losing DirecTV.

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#8 01-10-2007 10:26:14 AM

Frank
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Re: Will it really be offered?

jganyard wrote:

They probably had an agreement as far as working together but didn't have the financial and logistical issues hammered out yet.  Tivo probably was hoping for a boost at the time and pushed for an early announcement since this was about the time they were losing DirecTV.

Business doesn't work that way.  They announced a deal in 2005.  A deal is a deal. There were even some financial details given at the time.

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#9 01-10-2007 2:04:16 PM

jganyard
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Re: Will it really be offered?

Frank wrote:

jganyard wrote:

They probably had an agreement as far as working together but didn't have the financial and logistical issues hammered out yet.  Tivo probably was hoping for a boost at the time and pushed for an early announcement since this was about the time they were losing DirecTV.

Business doesn't work that way.  They announced a deal in 2005.  A deal is a deal. There were even some financial details given at the time.

Actually it does work that way quite a bit.  Many times there will be a memorandum of understanding/agreement signed prior to a full detailed contract being hammered out.  That is often enough for businesses to make announcements on.

There was some financial information mentioned in that article:

"Still, some say investors overreacted to a deal in which Comcast will pay TiVo less than $1 a month for each home that gets its service. "  - However I don't know how they came up the less than $1 per sub number.  It wasn't in any of the press releases at the time.  This doesn't mean the licensing with Motorola had been resolved either.

The article also says earlier on:

"The companies haven't settled on the precise TiVo package. But Comcast is expected to offer a service that supports high-definition programming and most existing TiVo features, including one that enables users with home networks to move recorded shows to their PC." - That definately has to do with the technical possibilities and liabilities the companies had yet to resolve.

Prematurely announced as I said because of the impending doom of the DirecTV relationship (from the same article):

"The deal comes just as TiVo's relationship with DirecTV, which accounts for 62% of its 3 million subscriptions, has hit the rocks. DirecTV, run by Rupert Murdoch's News Corp., offers TiVo built into its receivers but is about to introduce its own DVR service."

Thanks for the article mostly backing up what I was surmising... though I'm still making assumptions (wheeee! fun!).

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#10 01-10-2007 2:27:30 PM

Frank
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Re: Will it really be offered?

jganyard wrote:

Actually it does work that way quite a bit.  Many times there will be a memorandum of understanding/agreement signed prior to a full detailed contract being hammered out.  That is often enough for businesses to make announcements on.

Except, you know, this time, where "agreement in principal" was no where to be found but "deal" was mentioned 5 times.

"Still, some say investors overreacted to a deal in which Comcast will pay TiVo less than $1 a month for each home that gets its service. "  - However I don't know how they came up the less than $1 per sub number.  It wasn't in any of the press releases at the time.

Must have been a part of...oh, I don't know...the DEAL.  I'm sure not every aspect of the DEAL was put into the press release. Sounds like a pretty solid (if unstated in the article) number was reached.

The article also says earlier on:

"The companies haven't settled on the precise TiVo package. But Comcast is expected to offer a service that supports high-definition programming and most existing TiVo features, including one that enables users with home networks to move recorded shows to their PC." - That definately has to do with the technical possibilities and liabilities the companies had yet to resolve.

There are TiVo packages?  "Definately" according to what?

Prematurely announced as I said because of the impending doom of the DirecTV relationship (from the same article):

"The deal comes just as TiVo's relationship with DirecTV, which accounts for 62% of its 3 million subscriptions, has hit the rocks. DirecTV, run by Rupert Murdoch's News Corp., offers TiVo built into its receivers but is about to introduce its own DVR service."

Not seeing where this implies it was "prematurely" announced.  It was announced when...wait for it...the DEAL was reached. Noting effect has nothing to do with proving cause.

Thanks for the article mostly backing up what I was surmising... though I'm still making assumptions (wheeee! fun!).

I guess if you read into something enough, you can make it prove whatever you want.

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#11 01-10-2007 2:33:21 PM

jganyard
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Re: Will it really be offered?

Frank wrote:

I guess if you read into something enough, you can make it prove whatever you want.

Here-here.... the powers of interpretation work many ways!  wink

BTW:  Some words other than deal the author of the article could have used if they wished:

accord, arrangement, bargain, buy, compromise, conception, contract, pact, pledge, prearrangement, transaction, understanding

Don't get me wrong, I'm not shitting on this deal.  I'll be one of the first in my area signing up if it rolls out at the right price.

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#12 01-10-2007 2:37:12 PM

Frank
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Re: Will it really be offered?

jganyard wrote:

BTW:  Some words other than deal the author of the article could have used if they wished:

accord, arrangement, bargain, buy, compromise, conception, contract, pact, pledge, prearrangement, transaction, understanding

Don't get me wrong, I'm not s******** on this deal.  I'll be one of the first in my area signing up if it rolls out at the right price.

Financial press is usually pretty precise in the terminology they use (even in McPaper). Folks will invest differently in a "deal" than they will in any of the other words in your list.  Then again, it seems you had a vocabulary mishap in your post, so maybe you're having a bad semantical day.

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#13 01-10-2007 3:55:36 PM

jganyard
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Re: Will it really be offered?

Could be Frank, but just admit I'm right and you're right!  lol

Oh, and next time I post I might could reference my vocabulary on my old Hodges' Harbrace Handbook, m'kay?

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#14 01-10-2007 4:13:09 PM

Frank
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Re: Will it really be offered?

Can't wait.

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#15 01-10-2007 4:23:50 PM

Frank
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From: Bucks, PA
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Re: Will it really be offered?

Actually, in referencing your vocabulary, I was gently pointing out your abuse of the site's TOS.

By the way, if you want to post in the news area, I found some other news items you might want to use your special article interpretation skills on.  For example:

Study: 744,000 Are Homeless in U.S. Could become "Some People May Have an Agreement to Conduct a Study in The Future About Real Estate"

Los Angeles to Study Trans Fat Ban could become, "LA Says: Eat More Fat if You Want"

Apple Renames Itself, Unveils IPhone could become "Apple Prematurely Announces a Compromise Conception for IPhone, and I will Now Make Up a Reason Why They Announced it When They Did.

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#16 01-10-2007 4:42:39 PM

Wareagle
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From: Bellevue, WA
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Posts: 1073
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Re: Will it really be offered?

Frank wrote:

Actually, in referencing your vocabulary, I was gently pointing out your abuse of the site's TOS.

I thought you were referring to "Definately".  smile

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#17 01-10-2007 5:04:18 PM

Frank
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From: Bucks, PA
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Re: Will it really be offered?

No.  I thought putting quotes around that one was subtle enough.  So subtle I thought it was a little joke only to myself. 

You know I won't edit it out even though I could.  I'm against editing someone else's stuff.  Kind of why we're here.  Nothing against self-censorship, though.

Anyway, all in good fun.

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#18 01-11-2007 10:14:38 AM

jganyard
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Re: Will it really be offered?

Hey.. first off Frank, in case you didn't get it my last post was an attempt at ending the argument but you had to go ahead and egg it on even more with your response, which I won't touch just to end it.

Secondly, I'm not sure what part of your TOS I abused?  Is it this:

"DO attempt to control your use of foul language. I personally love foul language, but some people don't. I don't want to repel potential users who don't like that sort of thing. If the need arises, word censoring may become necessary."

Because I used a variation on the four letter word for excrement?  Sorry I chose that word, if that's why you were referencing my vocabulary.  I thought it was appropriate for the feeling I was trying to convey.  Next time I'll just post links to boobies and c-section scars, or is that only allowed in the "News" forum?  wink

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#19 01-11-2007 10:51:55 AM

Frank
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From: Bucks, PA
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Posts: 2881
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Re: Will it really be offered?

Actually, yes.  That is the part of *our* TOS you abused.

And I do realize that your last post (before this most recent last post) was an attempt at getting the last word in the discussion I hadn't considered an argument until now.

People of all walks come here looking for 6412 info.  I assumed I'd made the guidelines clear, and I am pretty sure I'm right in my assumption because it hasn't been a problem until now.  In my mind, acceptable on broadcast TV is kind of the line here.  I think you'll find my choice of news and articles are pretty much to that standard, and they are posted in the context of an area where folks who wind up here because they searched Google for 6412 information will not wind up by accident.

Now may be a good time to reiterate that ANYONE who can adhere to the community standards is free (and encouraged) to post news in the news areas, and ANYONE who cannot adhere to the community standards is free (and encouraged) to post whatever they want in the Free Speech Zone.

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